The empire may well fall, but the nation will stand.

275 million Americans are not going to just evaporate. They are the people, the citizens, the embodiment of American culture and values.

We could kill off 100 million people on each side of the border, and ALL the Mexicans would be gone, while the U.S.A. would still be a country of 175 million with every resource needed to start over and create an even better U.S.A.! I would say that it appears Mexico is closer to extinction than the U.S.A. is, as Mexico exists as no more than a parasite clinging to the underbelly and sucking from the tit of the U.S.A. for it's sustenance. Mexico had better hope the U.S.A survives, unless ot wishes for it's own destruction.

<< The empire may well fall, but the nation will stand. >>

That would'a been enough. Keep the venom to yourself.

The difference is that we acknowledge that we are WRONG while you all don't and just keep on moving like termites.

We will try to fix the immigration problem. It will not be easy, but we will face it. Unlike your educational system that has no self-criticism. Your scholls and media are no different that those "terrorist camps" in where bin Laden trains children.

No Frank,I am just pulling his chain,this guy really dislikes mexicans and nothing that we do or say will make him happy,so why worry?
He just go around and around,he doesn't even know what's happening to him in this forums. I'll tell you but it gets deleted somehow.
who he is? I have no idea everything here is smoke and mirrors,I guess he has multiple personalities,all of them eeeevil.

ss javier

You must be out of valid or rational arguments, because I have no association with the KKK, have never even met a KKK member, and do not subscribe to their political stance, philosophy, nor social theory. I guess that make your lame attempt at associating me with the KKK is only your own opinion, which is a baseless and unfounded one at that. If you have evidence to the contrary, then let's see it, otherwise you should refrain from such accusations, if only to make yourself appear more intelligent and credible, instead of desperate and uninformed.

I have many achievements of which to be proud, and which you are entirely unaware. In school I was rated in the top 2% academically. I am college educated and have an extremely diverse portfolio of work and life experience, including years in the field of engineering and design. I am also a musician and a photographer. I have been paid to play music on occasion, as well as for my photos, some of which have hung on the same walls in public places for more than twenty years. I have also received top grades and awards for my writng and essays. I have woodworking shop and enjoy all sorts of cabinetry. I presently worjk as a sound engineer, have preovided engioneering services for many famours enetrtainers, for crowds up to 75,000 people. I have also provided sound for the President of the United States, and have a plaque on my wall to prove it. Firearms is not an achievement, just one of many things I do, and do well. I bear arms for both personal enjoyment and out of a sense of duty to do so in being a responsible citizen.

If you wish to speak of philosophy and litereature, then by all means do so. I have done nothing at all to prevent you from doing exactly as you wish to in this forum. I would myself, but my country is in deep crisis, and has been since well before the terrorist attack that only made it more obvious and undeniable to those who were living in denial of that fact.

More enjoyable pursuits must, regrettably, be put on hold in favor of repairing our sinking ship. Sailing is lots of fun, but only AFTER you repair all the leaks in your boat. Sailing a leaking vessel is no fun at all in fact, and Mexico is the most major source of leaks in our ship of state, and is sucking all the joy out of our sailing on it, threatening to send it to the bottom of the sea, under the crushing weight of illegal immigration.

I will notify my church group that I have been declared an honorary member of the KKK by a Mexican nationalist who favors our open borders, our complete exposure to international terrorism, and the taking of American jobs from poor, undeducated black citizens, by poor uneducated non-ctizens from Mexico.

It just so happens that this church has 10,000 members, and is 98% black Americans. They ought to get a good laugh out of your allegations of my association with the KKK. In fact they already have, because this is not the first time such silliness has raised it's brainless and ugly head. They will read your message, shake their heads, laugh, and understand exactly what it is I have been taking about regarding Mexico, and I won't even have to say a word.

The Bishop of our church has also called for closing our borders, and defending our nation, and has done so with fiull biblical authority. The bible does not forbid people or nations from defending themselves or from "healing their offense". He says the nation IS offended, and cannot forgive until the offense is first dealt with. Frankly, I was surprised, but pleasantly so, as my opinion appears to be held by others who command much more respect and authority than I do, and across racial and ethnic lines.

Our schools are no different than Bin Laden's training camps? Really.

Well then, I guess the international community should be raiding our schoools with automatic weapons fire blazing. Better yet, let's just bomb U.S. schools, since you say they are terrorist raing camps. You do realize, don't you, that most students in California schools ARE from Mexico, don't you?

Why don't you give us some specific examples of the similarities between our schools and the terrorist training camps?

Our schools are overerun with illegal alien Mexicn children, or the anchor babies of adult illegal aliens. California schools were the best in the U.S.A. when I was growing up, now, they are the worst. There is a direct correlation between the downward slide in quality of education, and the increasing number of Mexican illegal aliens from state to state, withthe states harboring the most Mexican immigrants faring the worst. It appears that Mexicans and education just don't mix. Perhaps they are mutually exclusive.

Our educational system is one you are helping to destroy. You criticize our educational system, while the average Mexican in Mexico does not even get into high school, much less graduate from one.

Since you so often refer to us U.S. Americans as "termites", perhaps you should elaborate on that theme, and go into a little more detail about just what that means. Is that any different from calling Mexicans "cockroaches", which I have never done?

nemo.

illegals cooperating with terrorist? really? what are the chances of that.let my tell you.none, they have enough problems already.

what about native sons,will they dare to atack the US gov't? ya tell me.

it is almost embarrasing how people who should know better try to tie this crime to mexicans, why don't you try the queen of England.the Pope or the usual suspects (when everything else fails) the jews?

Hijackers Got Illegal State IDs, FBI Says

Investigation: For $100 or less, some of the suspects allegedly took advantage of a Virginia law that was changed--too late.

By MARLENE CIMONS, Times Staff Writer


WASHINGTON -- The small cluster of men had been hanging out in the parking lot next to the Arlington, Va., Department of Motor Vehicles office for at least four months, helping anyone who needed it--usually illegal immigrants--get a driver's license or a state identification card for a small fee, usually $100 or less.

So it wasn't unusual when, on Aug. 2, they were approached by "three Arab males" in a van seeking their services. The men in the parking lot led the men in the van to a lawyer's office and swore to their state residency. The men in the van then returned to the DMV with the paperwork and easily got Virginia identification cards.

This description, provided in a recently released FBI affidavit, shows how a Virginia law--which allowed virtually anyone to swear to a person's state residency so that person could get state identification--apparently enabled at least three of the men suspected of being among the Sept. 11 hijackers to pay a stranger about $80 each to help them get IDs. The suspects are believed to have sought the documents to make airport check-in easier for the doomed flights.

The affidavit is the first indication that suspects from three of the four hijacked planes were in the Washington area on the same day.

It also offers an example of how the hijackers apparently moved freely around the country to take advantage of a patchwork of regulations that vary from state to state. In Florida, where several of the suspected hijackers operated, officials are studying changes to safeguard that state's driver's license system.

The Virginia law was changed Friday. That had been planned before the attacks, because state officials found that the system had long been abused in cases of immigration fraud.

Until the law was changed, Virginia was one of the few states in the nation that did not require applicants to show an electric bill, lease or other documentation that they lived in the state. Likewise, applicants did not have to present a passport or other identity documents.

Instead, applicants could provide a notarized residency form co-signed by a Virginia resident or a notarized identity form co-signed by a lawyer.

"The agency has been conducting an extensive review of our entire list of acceptable documents," said Virginia DMV spokeswoman Pam Gaheen. "This has been going on since the beginning of the year. Our goal all along was to eliminate the use of these forms."

Thousands Have Exploited Law

In August, in fact, nearly a dozen people, including a northern Virginia notary public, were convicted in a case that exposed a thriving illegal market in Virginia driver's licenses and ID cards for undocumented immigrants. Thousands of illegal immigrants had exploited the law, even though many lived as far away as New York and Massachusetts.

At least one of the men who allegedly helped provide IDs to the suspected hijackers, Herbert Villalobos, has been charged by the FBI in a criminal complaint with providing false documents. Authorities said Villalobos, who used the alias Oscar Diaz, is being detained in an undisclosed location.

The FBI affidavit, made public earlier this week, quotes Brian Weidner, a special agent based in Washington, who carried out the investigation, and based his case largely on testimony provided by a confidential witness, referred to as "CW-1." CW-1 is a member of the network that helped people get fake IDs.

"CW-1 stated that he has provided this service to approximately 100 people during the past four months, and receives approximately $100 per individual," according to the FBI affidavit.

"CW-1 stated that he and another Hispanic male he knew as 'Herbert' went to the van, and agreed to assist the three Arab males," the affidavit continued. "According to CW-1, he and Herbert then drove to an attorney's office in Herbert's car, with the Arab males following in the van."

When they arrived, all the men went into a waiting room where a female employee completed the forms. Neither the attorney nor the secretary is identified by name in the affidavit.

In the affidavit, Weidner said that when he later interviewed the secretary, she identified at least two of the suspected hijackers from photographs as having been in the office that day. She also identified the FBI informant, CW-1.

When shown a photograph of the real Oscar Diaz--whose name and address allegedly were used by Villalobos to obtain the paperwork--"the woman did not recognize him at all," the affidavit said.

There is some confusion in the affidavit over the order of events, and the number of suspected hijackers involved. CW-1 talks about three Arab men, though at least four suspected hijackers have been linked to doing business at the DMV that day.

According to the affidavit, Villalobos--whom Weidner found next to the same DMV office CW-1 had described earlier--told him that he initially resisted helping the men, saying he could "get into a lot of trouble."

Weidner said that Villalobos was shown photographs of several individuals suspected of being involved in the hijackings. From these photographs, he identified several of the suspects, including Hani Hanjour, Salem Alhamzi, Majed Moqed, and Abdulaziz Alomari as all having been at the Arlington DMV on Aug. 2.

Hanjour, Moqed and Alhamzi are three of the men believed to have commandeered American Airlines Flight 77, which plowed into the Pentagon. Alomari is one of the suspected hijackers of American Airlines Flight 11, which crashed into one of the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York.

"These identifications were later confirmed by Virginia DMV records . . . , " the affidavit said.


_ _ _

Times staff writer Lisa Getter contributed to this report.

They would also take money from anyone for the same service, even middle eastern terrorists who would latedr kill thousands, including many from Mexico..

If not for Mexican illegal immigration into the U.S.A. the men who filed false affidavits, under Virginia law, that the terrorists were legal Virginia residents, would not have even been in business, because there would have been few illegals, and therefor little demand for their services.

Mexcian illegal immigration created the market for scamming official documents under these false affidavits, sworn to by Mexican nationals, who probably entered our country ilegally themselves, and who may or may not have been here legally as a result of our previous amnesty program.

These men have the blood of thousands on their hands, just as the actual perpetrators do. The irony is, they probably got deals to avoid prosecution in exchange for detailed information about their crimes to find out if any other terrorists got their hands on these documents.

If these men do not face prosecution, I wouldn't blame anyone for taking them out on moral grounds, and as a warning to others who might do the same.

Jorge:

Mr superpatriot here,could not possibly be part of the KKK., because he is black,that is why he is so paranoid of mexicans that may take low paying jobs,sometimes this are the only jobs available to inner city youths,and they don't want the competition,who would.?

Nope. I'm as white as they come, with blonde hair (some grey), blue eyes, and fair skin. I'm tall, at least by Mexcian standards, and not bad looking by most accounts.

Are you revealing your own anti-black bigotry by assuming I am black and pissed off about Mexicans taking jobs from blacks? You ar eonly half right. I am pissed off, but I'm certainly not to be mistaken for being black.

Many ladies, Americans of Mexican descent in particular, seem to have found me attractive over the years, even at age 44, as I seem to have always done well with them. I've always found it a little strange that the Mexican women have seemed to be more attracted to me than those of other groups. Maybe it is because I have always hung out with quite a few Americans of Mexican descent, and they feel comfortable with me. Maybe it is because I played in band for eight years or so, and was the only Anglo American in the group.

Who knows? I certainly had nothing against any of them based on their ethnicity, and most consider themselves simply as Americans, and not as Mexicans, which left no reason for me to object and not be their friend. The women also tended to be quite attractive in my estimation. Imagine that, and from an accused racist Mexican hater and member of the KKK.

As for Mexican immigrants taking jobs from America's own poor, many of whom happen to be black, and many of whom also are the descendents of Mexican immigrants themselves, but are American citizens nonetheless, who can possibly justify it? U.S. American jobs belong to U.S. American citizen workers.

If employers specifically need Mexican workers, for any reason, then they should move their operations to Mexico and eveyone would be happy. The employers would have their near-slave labor, the workers would have their miserable jobs, and people in the U.S. would not have to import poverty, paying all the social and governmental costs, for the benfit of a minority of unscrupulous and illicit employers, who themselves are exploiting Mexico's poor, breaking the law, depressing U.S. wages, and selling our national sovereignty and security, if only to make a larger profit for themselves.

Leave you alone? My God, what hypocrisy!

Here I am, begging that the Mexicans leave my country alone, and, while you all refuse to do so, even if your immigration practices are literally killing us, and now you have the nerve to ask me to leave you alone so that you can chat about Mexicn poetry and philosophy?

Forget it.

As long as Mexico refuses to honor our shared border, and the laws and national sovereignty of the U.S.A., I will be right here, to let you know that Americans like myself know what is going on and will NOT allow it to contiunue indefinitely.

As long as Mexico continues in it's current policies and behaviors against the national interests of the citizens of the U.S.A., expect a lot more of the same, and probably worse.

<<< We could kill off 100 million people on each side of the border, and ALL the Mexicans would be gone, while the U.S.A. would still be a country of 175 million with every resource needed to start over and create an even better U.S.A.! I >>>

--Woah, is that you Ronald J Hitler?

Don't worry Javier. I'm not trying to tie Mexico or Mexicans to this crime in any way. In fact I highly doubt there is much of a connection with any supposed Mexican terrorists in this situation. The only thing that I am tying to the terrorist attacks is the fact that they were here with fake papers...they were here illegally. Since we cannot be sure what to expect next, ans we are not sure how far reaching the terrorist' underground network is, we are left with the possibility that the terrorists may attempt another attack. They may even attempt to get more terrorists into the US illegally. So I can completely understand why right now a person living near the border is likely to feel obligated to stop a group of illegal immigrants from entering the country freely. It is nothing against Mexicans personally, or as a nationality, not at all. Only a precaution with illegal immigrants, and illegal immigrants of all sorts.

Can you distinguish the hypothetical?

the point is, that Mexico would do well not to forget that the U.S.A still outnumbers it almost 3 to 1. and owning over 200 million guns as well, which Mexicans are forbidden from owning.

If Mexico plans to not stay within the present boudaries of it's own territories, and continue to spill over it's borders and wage demographic warfare against the U.S.A, they will eventually have to deal with a hostile population that will still be far larger than they are for the foreseeable future, military advantages aside.

Should armed and civil disturbances then ensue as a result of their decision and strategy, they could rapidly find themselves in the untenable situation of being greatly outnumbered, and get their butt's kicked all the way back to the present border.

In a worst case scenario, the U.S.A. will have a huge advantage, and higher likelihood of a successful recovery in the aftermath.

Seems prudent enough to me.

"Sometimes it is better to loose than to have so much blood on your hands" -- The Greek doctor talking to the nazi officer in Captain Carelli's Mandolin.